Why is there such a large Price Variance between retailers on like for like product, is it ALL buying power?
Consumers should not wear overpriced product because Organic Chains can't get their act together!
Organic will always cost more, how much more is a reasonable question!
We understand the commercial side of this industry, does this truly mean giving up all ethics,
surely the larger retailers are able to grow this industry with the Organic Ethos!
We note that one retailer has now started filling it's racking with conventional/mainstream Product WTF?
This Industry is about more than the Bottom Line . . . it's about life, coexistence, sustainability, community & wellbeing.
The commercial viability of this industry needs to be focused on support for local content/producers, not a grab for cheap imported product that are flogged to the consumer at ridiculously inflated prices!
In this industry only 3 things exist : Good Producers : Ethical Resellers & Above All, The Customer! This is after all Just Retail?
81 comments:
As an ex m - - - o employee & can state categorically that the consumer is paying for ineptitude, bad management, horrid service & overpricing. A formulated price in this chain = a good guess or x 2.5 or bad buying + 200+% Biggest problem is that most customers have way too much spare cash. The people that really want organic & have a brain are all at woolies!
Thats a bit harsh, better if you don't mention specific retailers . . .
I hear though that there is a Queensland retailer/chain that has embraced standard retail practice, sells good product at reasonable prices? it can be done!
MC65 makes a good point don't get too personal.
Secondly, larger supermarket chains strive on making people second guess themselves and too in the end take the 'safe' way and too buy from stand that they want them too.
After all most produce that is 'contracted' for supply to these chains isn't grown for taste. It is grown for transport and storage. Meaning a tomato isn't grown to taste the best, it is grown thick skinned and tasteless so it won't bruise or split in transport.
Bring on organic chains of supermarket's, buying power changes the way most people shop, and alas what most people think.
Darryn has hit the nail on the head, we need to support these chains through growth periods. The more feedback these small guys get the harder they will peddle to become competitive. If you believe quality or price is out of kilter, say so, all these businesses value the customer above everything.
Not sure my comment was personal, my concern is that if Organics is a growth industry, can we not try to get it right now. What seems to be missing from the glam chains is passion (which leaves the taste of: in for a buck)
Either passion for Organics or Retail would be a good starting point, the glam chains are risking a bad name all round if they don't begin to focus on mainstreaming, commercialising & adding a professional attitude to their businesses. No one wants bad pricing, service & support, not even in a really good looking store!
The customer will surely sort out bad operators . . .
Commercial reality will kick in as the industry grows
It would be an Unfortunate miscarriage if these chains put the smaller organic stores out of business, these chains are truly only interested in perpetuating wealth!
please support you local organic trader or co op
I tend to agree with Angela, the clever marketing, good looking stores & mass amounts spent on marketing seems to point toward a focus on image not organics . . .
on the other hand, someone has to blow the trumpet!
As someone that shops almost exclusively organic, I truly wouldn't like to see this industry sold out . . .
scruples, manners & ethics please
Unless the Organic retailers get their act together they will become irrelevant. Customers are not prepared to tolerate sporadic pricing!
As a retailer & organic consumer I am unable to fathom the unorganised nature of this sector?
Ginger: has raised a positive point, surely this is all about the customer?
I have just had the worst shopping experience at M____ Bondi, I feel molested!
Customer service should be universally good,
at M____ Bondi it is a fiasco.
It's like being beaten by Really Unclean Muggers, they are soooo rude.
I also had a bad experience at bondi, Rodents!
Bad Bad Bad Service!
Ratpoo & Staff with more attitude than Aptitude?
Super markets will always be a better buy, they can source organic products at cheaper rate because
(1) they buy in bulk. so farmer or trader does not have to look around consumers like us to sell.
(2). super markets enter into forward contracts for these products. it allows them to secure produces at a specific rate and in specific quantity. It allows them to hedge against price rises and secure the produce in case of shortage.
Organic Producers & Suppliers are more than willing, infact desire their product become mainstream . . .
It seems the higher the Profile of Organic Chains, the lower the integrity.
The swish chains seem to be focused on image & not content.
A luxury 4X4 parked out front of these stores seems to indicate success.
They belittle the ethos of ORGANIC.
The assumption that Farmers or Traders have a single (1) tier or are commercialy satisfied simply trading with larger retailers is incorrect. This also negates the question of trading proficiently in a commercial environment.
(2) Smaller Retailers may not be able to secure contracts at the same value as Supermarkets, they are however completely able to Hedge on Contracts, the fact is they don't, they are also prone to bad buying habits & not following retail trends closely enough EG: a larger small organic retailer has recently committed to an enormous purchase of essential oils - the fault in this purchase ($40K) is two fold.
1) they overpaid on product 2) the product is no longer a star product in the market!
This is an example of daily occurrence in Smaller Retailers.
Some Retailers have hooked into Premium Product Pricing on Organics, they believe the consumer wants to Pay More!
Recent comment in the popular press would indicate that Marcus is spot on.
Several recent articles have indicated that consumers are paying for image & bad management!
There is also an ongoing discussion on the future of Organics, the US chain Wholefoods has started an intentional drift away from Organics, it seems to be drifting toward Local, carbon footrint, questionable organic benefits & sustainability may be solid causes?
Our problem (in australia) is that Organic is still viewed as a luxury purchase.
Will Organic ever become mainstream?
I would like to think that organics will become mainstream. I note that the large supermarket chains are juggling their organic offer, it's surely only a matter of time before they get it right.
As a consumer I find it disgusting that the swish chains think that we are sucker enough to pay double the price for same same products.
You would seriously think with all the capital investment in these smaller chains that they could get it right, bad pricing, no service & little product knowledge - might as well Pay Less & invest the balance in my own lifestyle!
My biggest concern is that our industry is run by blokes with big egos but not much more, we have a distinct lack of thinkers at the retail end of the business. As a producer this concerns me because I'd really like to be in a successful (not laughed at) industry, one that believes, has passion and gets the big picture.
Our biggest problem is with a sydney based retailer, they have dropped our Locally produced Organic Line for an imported conventional line with slick packaging, the new product is sold at higher price (+10%) than our products retailed for? even stranger is that our sales seemed strong??
I am so over that cheesy P----- C-dy, exactly how much smrmy rubbish can one man exhale. If the twit focused on what he was doing at M-cr- rather than skirts & self importance he would have a fantastic business. Right now all he has is overpriced rubbish & an ego to match! LET THE REAL PEOPLE DO ORGANIC
We must live in hope that Organic Retailers share the passion of Organic Producers. Retailers are our way out of the closet, I love my local market but know that there is a wide world out there!
m-c-o is living under the delusion that it is a powerhouse in retail, an authority in organics & masterful at sustainability. truth be told it is none of these, it is a large pretty cash register with absolutely no sole, no ethics & the only green it has was chose by a marketing team!
I think that it is a little unfair to pick on One retailer, while I agree with your sentiments: it is not the point.
I note the quote below, how many farmers do these guys carry, I thought they Shopped at Flemington Markets????
"Ma-r- takes a leadership role within the organics industry to encourage research and development, education and awareness. they claim to be constantly meeting and encouraging new growers, especially small local family or cooperative farms.
To get clean food we need a clean source. M-c-o nurtures a close synergy with certified organic growers and suppliers to make sure that the products we offer are authentic - they have not been synthesised or adulterated in production, processing or storage.
We know our growers and they know us. We work together to provide the best organic and natural produce available. Our growers know that M-cr- does not accept poor produce, working to our stringent quality standards"
Organics should not be treated as though it were a Billboard (an amusing diversion) Our industry is a need to many people! We need to live up to these expectations, I have visited the stores mentioned above & aside from the Right Look - Much is Just Not Right!
I note the Rodent problem persists at Bondi, surely we are over being THIS humane to the creatures that seem intent on crawling allover the kitchen benches? Perhaps the staff might leave out dinner for the poor creatures :}
I know that there has been much talk on getting the problem resolved.I note that this problem has been around for about a year now, perhaps Angela you should call council.
i was actualy in that store when they were first discoverd (worked in the kitchen) it was more like 18months ago
MY grip on the rodent thing is that Mr BL__D_ was on a store visit when he discovered THE POOP, or was that a different rodent episode?
I know they have been a real problem on all the benches & have been known to nibble through packages in grocery!
This is not meant to be a M_C_O soap box beating! Could we please focus on the industry rather than it's short coming.
There is a great article in Cosmos Magazine (current issue) For once can our argument not be emotive, could we please stand up & argue the very valid points in this article with proper sensibility: We believe in organics for more than just our Personal Health & Lifestyle, we believe in organics because it benefits this planet we stand on, it takes farming out of the hands of multinational Co's & puts it back into the hands of people with passion, needs & indeed brings agriculture back earth.
http://www.cosmosmagazine.com/node/1567
I totally get the selfish point of view, the I want to live forever thing.
MC65 is spot on though. Organics was founded on higher principals than just personal. It was created & should grow through ethical, caring values that insist on putting something back.
Exactly how Organic is Bottled Water, at a time when our focus needs to be as much on environmental issues as our own well being. Do yourself a favor, get a glass & fill it at a tap.
http://www.choice.com.au/viewArticle.aspx?id=104793&catId=100286&tid=100008&p=1&title=Bottled+water
http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/bottled-water-the-new-ecodisaster/2006/02/25/1140670303250.html
Quote from Catharine Munro, The Age. February 26, 2006: AUSTRALIANS' love affair with bottled water has left environmentalists worried about the toll on the planet.
With 65 per cent of plastic drink bottles ending up in landfill, they are calling for better recycling services.
The popularity of bottled water is rising at a rate of 10 per cent a year in Australia.
About 550 million litres were consumed in 2004-05, according to the Australian Beverage Council, with most purchases being made in addition to soft drinks, rather than replacing them.
The plastic water bottles are becoming a major environmental hazard. They suck up valuable fuels to make.
They also create mountains of rubbish when they are thrown away.
Why Then would a business that claims to be Green create their own Bottled Water,Perhaps the comment above is correct, Green Only via Marketing?
Bottled water the 'new eco-disaster'
Say no to bottled water!
The Victorian Government has declared war on bottled water, with the state's Environment Minister Gavin Jennings calling on citizens to ditch the water bottle and drink tap water.
This came as studies showed it could take up to seven litres of water and a litre of crude oil to produce one litre of bottled water.
Discarded water bottles also accounted for almost 38 per cent of general waste, with thousands of plastic bottles fished out of the Yarra River each week.
And a Sunday Herald Sun taste test revealed 68 per cent of people preferred the taste of tap water over bottled water, while 20 per cent could not tell the difference.
Twelve per cent preferred bottled water.
"The negative environmental impact of bottled water is clear," Mr Jennings said.
"By taking a drink from the tap, Victorians can help keep themselves and the climate cool.
Figures showed the trend to drink only bottled water was rising, with the industry taking a 13 per cent share of the national beverage market last year.
Source
People urged to tap into natural product
Sunday Herald Sun - March 2008
Author
Shannon Deery
Not sure all that is going to change anyones mind, bit like pissing into the wind
I don't see that it is So Hard to balance what's Good For Us & having a conscience on this place we live. Infact I think it shows a huge lack of thought to Not Think of what's surrounding us, do we have some other place to go?
I couldn't agree more. This need to non thinkingly require the biggest and best is not sustainable, it should not be an ambition either. We need a more thoughtful approach to gathering wealth. We need to discover & promote leaders that have vision, not a need for power, people that see outside the micro world they inhabit.
Part of the problem seems to be an unaware, unthinking, almost primal (relying on a gut feeling) method of buying or ranging. The effect of this uneducated guessing game is that many producers (who have thought long & hard over their product) miss out on being carried/ranged, in favor of someones buddy or a whim-filled self expression. Product & Customer is all there is?
In the bigger picture, unless these smaller retailers get their organic act together, they will surely be outpaced by Supermarkets. As mentioned above, this industry is in it's early days of commercialization. The supermarkets are surely looking at these enterprises & smirking at the time it's taking to get things right.
PC must be wondering what ever happened to his dream
i would suggest, there never was a dream, just a pitch to make a bucket of money, there lies the problem
Fortunately I reckon Mr C is completely oblivious to anything other than his own thought pattern, never underestimate the luck these people create amongst themselves.
https://www.linkme.com.au/ui/unregistered/blog/BlogPost.aspx?postId=926
So surprised by your views Angela. Great to hear from marginalised ex employees of you know who!!!!
Spose you guys want to keep it an exclusive club. Bit like a cult!
PPC: ppl of your calibre are always more than welcome ! We are honored by your presence . . .
Angela: I didn't know you were that sort of ex? thought it was more a lump in the middle kind of relationship?
More an up the duff kinda relationship!
Yikes . . thats a nasty link
WHO IS ANGELA CLARK?
wasn't she a lover?
of Who's ?
You Need To Ask PPC that Question!
WTF?
Battle of the articles?
I tend to agree with PPC on the Choice article, What scientific evidence could there be that would repudiate PPC's own thoughts. PPC has surely one of the most scientifically based minds in our known universe . . . THE MAN IS A THINKER!
Does anyone know what happened to the M_C_O store in Concorde?
I believe it closed last september, shame, the store seemed to have potential, something about badly negotiated lease & italians not embracing organics
Great site: http://www.daylesfordorganic.com/
Cool new green series about to hit the nine network! http://www.destra.com/presentations/doitgreen/
What amases me about PPC is that he is the most unhealthy mutt I've ever stood beside. Organics, do they do an organic cocaine?
I BELIEVE WE CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE, when do we start?
this site seems to be doing more bagging out of companies willing to promote organics than actually talking about organics. As a naturopath, I personally believe that any company that has the ability to bring the benefits of organic food into the lime light is doing a good job... not only are they promoting healthy eating, but they are promoting a healthier environment. Although some of the bigger retailers are expensive, I see this as a good thing as they are not underpricing the smaller co-ops. So lets not focus on the general problems of big business, and focus on something else instead like organic products using cancer causing chemicals that are hidden.
I don't disagree in principle with what Anonymous has to say. What I do disagree with is that as a whole the larger Retailers tend to carry more imported (carbon heavy) items, they need to try a little harder to carry Local Product, it's out there (often a little more expensive) Through negotiation these product should be firmly planted on the well thought out racking.
Regarding the Bagging: this blog is moderated only for Liable, feel free to have your say . . .
My biggest concern is How Green are the Organic Chains?
I DO believe that Organics needs to be mainstreamed, not at ANY cost though.
A nice example would be Cleaning Products, please explain the philosify behind buying imported (American) PHOSPHATE FREE Laundry Powder?
Surely the Transport of these products has Nullified ANY advantage the phosphate free once had?
http://sustainablyorganic.blogspot.com/2008/06/sustainability-organic-should-they-mean.html#links
nice link mc
Shame to see another Specialty Retailer (The Barn, Rozelle, Sydney) close it's doors, Tough retail world out there!
Press Release From OFA:
LARGEST EVER STUDY INTO ORGANICS PROVIDES CONCLUSIVE EVIDENCE OF
NUTRITIONAL BENEFITS
A study released by Newcastle University delivers incontrovertible proof of the benefits of organics
The largest ever study into organics has found that organic food is more nutritious. The Newcastle University study
found that organic vegetable crops contained up to 40% more beneficial compounds and organic milk contained
over 90% more nutrients than conventionally produced milk. These results come from the lead Scientist of this
project and the full findings will be published next year.
The research was conducted at a 725-acre farm in Newcastle upon Tyne in a four year, A$30M experiment funded
by the European Union. Researchers from Newcastle University created two identical farms; one managed using
conventional farming practices and the other managed organically. 33 academic centres across Europe participated
in this four year project. The resounding conclusion was that the organic produce contained higher levels of
compounds thought to boost health and combat disease.
Professor Carlo Leifert, the co-ordinator of the European-funded project said in a Sunday Times article that the
differences were so marked that organic produce would help to increase the nutrient intake of people not eating the
recommended five portions a day of fruit and vegetables. He was quoted as saying, “If you have just 20% more
antioxidants and you can’t get your kids to do five a day, then you might just be okay with four a day.”
While the study did find that some conventional crops contained larger quantities of some vitamins, the research
has confirmed that the overall trend is that organic fruit, vegetables and milk are more likely to have beneficial
compounds.
Andre Leu, the Chair of the Organic Federation of Australia says, “It’s official that organic food is healthier and this
report lends credibility to what we have been saying all along. This study adds to the 83 reports that say that on
average, organic food has a higher nutrient content. The exciting thing about this is that it involved 33 academic
institutions across Europe led by Newcastle University, and as a result, it has enormous scientific credibility. The
significant increase in cancer fighting compounds shows that investing in organics is excellent value for
consumers.”
Pierce Cody, Executive Chairman of Macro Wholefoods Market says, “It’s pleasing but not surprising that yet
another highly respected research program has zeroed in on the very clear benefits of organic food versus the rest.
Recent claims that the ‘jury is still out’ look silly when placed with such clear evidence.”
A more recent release from ofa also supports the notion that organics is superior to conventional farming in the nutrition stakes:
MEDIA RELEASE
For Immediate Release: Thursday 17th April 2008
ORGANIC FOOD IS MORE NUTRITIOUS – IT’S A FACT
A new scientific study from the Organic Center provides strong evidence that organic foods are definitely
more nutrient dense.
“It’s official that organic food is healthier. A new report by scientists from Washington State University and
the University of Florida lends credibility to what we have been saying all along. The researchers compared
11 key nutrients and found that organic foods contained, on average, 25% higher concentrations of
nutrients.” Andre Leu, the Chair of the Organic Federation of Australia stated
“The researchers evaluated all the available published studies and managed to establish 236 comparisons
between organic and conventional foods that they organised into matched pairs. “ Mr Leu said
“They found that across all 236 matched pairs that the organic food averaged 25% higher levels of nutrients.
The size of the study along with the level of statistical difference clearly shows that dieticians and others can
no longer say that there is no evidence that organic food is more nutritious”
The report titled ‘State of Science Review: Nutritional Superiority of Organic Foods’ was researched by
scientists from Washington State University, University of Florida and the Organic Center.
The nutrients included:
• Four measures of antioxidants (total phenolics, total antioxidant capacity, quercetin, kaempferol),
• Three precursors of key vitamins (Vitamins A, C, and E),
• Two minerals (potassium and phosphorous),
• Nitrates (higher levels are a nutritional disadvantage), and
• Total protein.
we love macro
Image: chicken
Expensive free-range, corn-fed and even organic chickens don’t taste any better than the average factory-raised chook, according to a CHOICE taste test.
The consumer advocate says the narrow range of fast-maturing breeding stock now used in almost all chicken production makes any differentiation between the meat produced by different methods effectively meaningless.
A panel of four food experts taste tested eight different roast chickens: two organic, two free-range, one corn-fed and three regular factory-farmed birds. While there were no significant differences in their scores, all agreed chickens don’t have as much taste as they used to.
The chooks, which ranged in price from $3.99 per kg for a regular factory-farmed chicken to $12.50 per kg for organic, were all prepared and cooked without seasoning or stuffing.
CHOICE says the results tie in with international trials, which also indicate consumers can’t tell the difference between organic and ordinary chicken breast meat.
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